Bullying?

[llmercll]

I'm wondering if theres bullying going on in my tank...the largest crab is there side by side with my medium crab, and at least on of them is chirping. They cherp even more when I check on them.

They are both sitting still, and are both PP's. Earlier i saw the big one doing the antenna play with a smaller one, but with my medium one in the wood hut (who was there first) it looks like they might be a little aggressive.

my first and medium sized crab (although i think his pincer is larger than the large crab) was found to the side, with the larger crab "humping" him, lol. The thing that bothered me was that my medium crab, has his PP claw around one of the larger crabs legs. It doesn't look like any of them were in pain, and they weren't scuffling or fighting, but that claw being there cant be good.

What could this have been? a dominance test? fight for control over the "wood hut"? even though they can both fit in there? who would be the aggressor in this case? was my medium crab just defending itself?

I guess I'm wondering if it's something more serious or just a hierarchy thing. Either way i was concerned and lifted up the log and watched them for a few minutes. eventually the big one walked away in the corner and my medium sized one went wandering around. then they met up again and had a little antenna play, which I hear is good.

[llmercll]

I don't know if this is "diagnostic" but my medium crab is cherping now for the first time since I've got him. I don't know if this is his warcry or just a social call =0

[llmercll]

Some more to add. My brother said he heard one of them cherping when he came to get me. He was worried because he never heard it before.

I put the log hut back in...the big one is burrowed outside it, and the medium one (who was in the hut first, and spent awhile burried in the hut) is walking along the coroner of the cage, more active than hes been in days tbh. the medium one pinched my aunt when they first got him, maybe hes aggressive by nature?

I don't THINK it was a shell fight...I can't be sure though because while the large one is def bigger, its not that drastic.

Mind you this is the second night with the new crabs and prior to this my first crab was burrowed in his hut almost the entire time. I'm glad he's out now and being active...but hope they aren't enemies.

I basically want to know what kind of issue you think this is. the big pincer is def a sign of aggression yeah? that can be for what?? dominance or shell fighting mostly? or territory? like control over the hut? but that would be part of the dominance struggle no?

[emmac350]

Did you isolate the new crab at all? Oftentimes when you get new crabs, they still have wild instincts. They still think they have to fight for shells, food, water, space, etc. whereas your crabs you've had for a while realize that those things aren't going away anytime soon. That is one of several reasons it is recommended that we ISO our crabs when first getting them. The pincher on the leg sounds VERY bad. That does not happen during a normal shell fight (in a shell fight, one crab grabs the other crab's shell opening and rocks it back and forth until the crab gets out of it) - it happens when one crab is about to rip another crab's leg off. So please isolate these two crabs so that the new guy can learn that he doesn't have to fight for anything. He's been through a lot in the past few months (being captured, dunked in chemicals to kill bugs/bacteria, kept in concrete floored cages with wire mesh walls with no humidity, packed up to go to a pet store, and life in a pet store) before coming to you, so he needs time to unwind.

[llmercll]

I didn't ISO him, no. I don't have a spare tank and read somewhere on crabbagepatch that its not that important...but im beginning to wonder. how long would he need to be ISO'd? and is it too late?

I put in an extra shell last night and the medium seized crab switched into it today. the larger crab has burrowed since last night, while the medium sized crab has been more active than ever...

[ladybug15057]

The hermie must be iso'ed before he seriously injures or kills another hermie. Hermies WILL grab onto legs and such in shell fights as well... and try to tear them out of their shells. Hermies do have a pecking order, but this is many times an antenna fight/fencing, pincher pushing, etc. This is normal and should be let go, BUT when one sees large pincher action as you are seeing one MUST iso.
How long with a newbie? No less than a week, make sure he is offered plenty of shells, food and waters. Some hermies may need up to 2 weeks or longer in iso.

[llmercll]

I have more to my story, I'll really appreciate anyone who reads it all, I know it's a lot. So today they both kept to themselves, and when they started to wake up I watched them both very closely for about 20 minutes (amazing how i can look at these guys and not get bored). the new, large sized crab, immediately went over the old shell of the medium hermy and started examining it, rolling around with it and stuff for a good 5 minutes. then finally he came out of his old one and actually went inside the new one(my medium crabs old shell)!

unfortunately it didn't last long and he started playing around with his old shell, only to switch back to it yet again. After that, I got the two crabs together and placed them in the water dish. The medium sized crab immediately backed away, very fast. Then the large crab went over it (which was now in it's shell) and started feeling its shell with its antenna. That escalated though, and the big crab eventually wrapped its legs around it and started rolling around. I picked it up and it wouldn't let go of the medium sized crab, but when i sat is back down it let go and they went in opposite directions.

Then, my medium sized hermy was walking around and just crawled over the big crab that not too long ago it was scared of. So I waited a little while and tried to get them back together again, and it was working! they were having a harmless antenna feel, and believe it or not the medium sized crab initiated it. Sure enough, the big one took it a step farther and wrapped its arms around my medium one, started rocking it back and forth. I went to pick it up again and it immediately let go.

So now, the smaller one and the large one I got from petco are chilling under the log that was once hermy's (my medium sized crabs name). it really bothers me that this big one came and is pushing hermy out of his home and attacking him.

So I've decided I need an ISO. But I don't have another tank, what can i use instead? a plastic container with some holes in the top? should i put both the crabs i got from petco in it or just the one causing trouble?

And what do you guys think now that I've expanded on the detail? it looks to me like the crab i got is just bigger and looking for a new shell, pushing round hermy because hes stronger and hermy is similarly sized. he gets along fine with the small crab that he came home with though. What do they do in dominance struggles? does it ever get as far as the dominate one grappling onto the weaker ones shell and rocking it (like emmac was describing earlier as a shell fight) or is it just an antenna war? I didn't see any pincher action tonight, but that might be because I got to them on time...

[llmercll]

Also, I'm not sure of the specied of the new crab. His pincher is very very purple making me think hes a PP, but im not sure, his shell is much lighter and his eyes arent compeltely round..





My fear is that even if I ISO them for a few weeks, when if when I put them back in they still fight? what the hell would I do?

[llmercll]

OK, this is blowing my mind....remember how I said the 2 from petco took over his half log home? well now hermy (medium sized victim) just walked right in there with them and is sitting down...no fighting or anything.

[CrabbyJo]

It's very interesting, watching these critters, and realizing they really aren't like humans at all, making it very hard for us to understand them if we try to from a human perspective.

You said you put in AN extra shell - do you have at least three extra shells per crab, of varying sizes? You should have some a little smaller, the same size, and a little bigger than they shell each crab has, so they have a good choice and can move into a larger or smaller shell if they want.
You can often find shells at Michael's or even Walmart (in bags), but personally I've not had much luck finding turbo shells (round openings, most PP crab's favorites) at those stores, and end up purchasing mine on ebay or from online stores like El's Shells, or Beauty Shells, or the Crabbage Patch.

As for the aggression, since you really don't have an iso, it's not a good idea to put the crab into a container with holes in it. You want a tank where you can create the same conditions as the main tank, as in humidity and temperature. If the crabs seem to be settling, in, it may be alright. I would highly suggest making sure there are plenty of shell choices, though, that may solve the "rolling" problem.

Crabs are going to work on dominance issues and establish their pecking order. We have to just let them do what they will, and allow them to settle into their own hierarchy, as long as there is no leg pulling.

Chirping often means an upset crab, or one that feels threatened, but Marie tells about one of her crabs who sits up on a log and just chirps, and she hasn't quite figured out why this crab will do this. We speculated she's announcing she's Queen of the log she's sitting on.

I think having hermit crabs is so neat because it gives us our own opportunity to observe and discover things about them, since so little seems to be known or shared about them in captivity.