Crabicide or accidental death?

Suebee · Post by **Suebee** » 08 Jun 2010, 09:42

If you reread my post you will see i didnt say its the same, i even mentioned that i use oceanic salt. However some can not get other salts in there area and that salt is better then no salt. I even mentioned that the other salts have more minerals.

"If they aren't offered an ocean salt, crabs will recycle their urine into their shell water to maintain the proper level of salinity/dissolved solids to keep their abdomens from turning pruny '
Id love to see where that info came from.

emmac350 · Post by **emmac350** » 08 Jun 2010, 11:28

One scientific article that I have found about the use of urine in terrestrial hermit crabs that don't spend time near the beach in maintaining the osmotic balance between their shell water and their bodies:
http://www.bees.unsw.edu.au/school/staf ... %20MMV.pdf

The salt in their shell water must originate from the diet, perhaps via urine released into the shell, and presumably is available to the animal via branchial uptake or ingestion.

When crabs of either group [beach-dwellers like Es vs. PPs and other mostly terrestrial crabs] have access to waters of differing salinities they can regulate shell water within the preferred range behaviourally by selective drinking and promotion of evaporation (Gross, 1955; 1964; de Wilde, 1973). Crabs have a strong ability to assess the salinity of water bodies and C. clypeatus can discriminate differences in salinity of only 0.18–0.36 (de Wilde, 1973), whilst C. rugosus can distinguish between airborne odours of fresh and saline water (Vannini and Ferretti, 1997).

Both of those quotes are from page 17, right below the table, left column.

Suebee · Post by **Suebee** » 08 Jun 2010, 12:27

Hermit crab research has so changed from the time that information was taken. Its shocking to read some of the other items from that reseach time period. I sugest looking for updated research.

ladybug15057 · Post by **ladybug15057** » 08 Jun 2010, 13:49

I dont like to use other boards as research. This is my opinion. If you have more questions I know HCP will answer any questions regarding the salt or any products that they sell.

Whereas this can be a good idea with some sites on the internet it is not with all sites. The Crab Street Journal has thousands of hours into research as well as experience in keeping hermies alive. It is a free site, and does not actually stand to make a profit or living from the information. Tammy does have some great information, same as CSJ, and here at HCP. (Hermit crab paradise)
Once again, please accept the idea that others DO know what they are talking/writing about as well. Please do STOP treating others here as though they are a bunch of idiots and that only ELHC and Hermit Crab Patch has a clue as to how to care for hermies. Every single post I have read contains how they know all and in reality NOBODY does. IMO at this point it seems as in a back door way this is advertising for them. And the HBH salt, is NOT better than offering nothing. Why not just suggest for crabbers to grab the Morton and throw that into the pond? And sorry, but I just went to Hermit Crab Patch and seems there are several foods sold there that contain ethoxyquin and/or copper sulphate too??

Post by **Wai** » 08 Jun 2010, 22:42

General Rules and Guidelines

Wai wrote:16. Please respect each other and consider what everyone says before deeming them "wrong". There is no single "correct" method to crabbing. After all, forums are designed for open discussion. It is okay to warn someone if you think that they are doing something wrong, but do so with caution so to not offend them. Do not express disinterest in someone else's hermit crab care methods if they do not match yours, especially if their method has worked for them for three years or more.

Re: White crab?

Suebee wrote:I do not go to other boards for "new" ideas, however I do listen to years of research to find anything I can do to make my crabs safe.

Re: Crabicide or accidental death?

Suebee wrote:If you have more questions I know HCP will answer any questions regarding the salt or any products that they sell. In my opinion they are the best and I fully have trusted them for the many years of research, not just owning crabs.

Suebee, pointing out risks is not against the rules, but expressing disinterest in other people's methods is a breach of rule #16. You deem all of us inferior to yourself and the rest of Bob's group.

Re: Something we should all be aware of

Suebee wrote:I know that some of the people giving lots of advise are not without deaths so IMO It could be broke. Lets all see what many researching together can do to fix that.
Tammy and Kirk along with Bob and myself have made changes, documented them and imporved from them.

I am a university student who has access to hundreds of databases of theses that the university paid subscriptions for. Give me the titles of the theses that Bob and your research group have written. If I cannot find any of them on the databases, then your research is no more credible than what the rest of us say.

Re: Crabicide or accidental death?

Suebee wrote:Hermit crab research has so changed from the time that information was taken. Its shocking to read some of the other items from that reseach time period. I sugest looking for updated research.

In response to this thesis: Terrestrial adaptations in the Anomura
You may consider it 'old', but at least it was approved by scholars and placed into a recognised database of approved theses; therefore it is still an academic source. Have any of your research group's reports made it into any databases to earn the title of an academic source? If it is not an academic source, then I don't see why the rest of our opinions should be overshadowed by your so-called research.

Re: Something we should all be aware of

Suebee wrote:I think you are confussing me with someone who doesnt listen to others research and refuses to learn what works for others. What I do is let people know what information I have and let them make the choices they need to make.

No, I don't think Marie was confusing you with anyone. You do give the information you have, but you also point at other people's methods and deem them not viable as options, even if the methods worked for many years. We accept that your method has worked for you, but you aren't interested in hearing what has worked for us. We give you links to the information that we use, but this was your response:

Re: Crabicide or accidental death?

Suebee wrote:As for the crab street journal, If I were up to actually going to that site I could show you pages of missinformation.

You didn't even bother visiting the links and you've made a judgement already.

All we hear is you and Sach back then saying Bob and friends have "done research", but you never provide any more information on what they actually do to their hermit crabs or describe the experiments that they perform. We don't even know what qualifications these mysterious researchers have. If you worship Bob so much, why be afraid to provide more detail?

ladybug15057 · Post by **ladybug15057** » 09 Jun 2010, 00:24

We don't even know what qualifications these mysterious researchers have. If you worship Bob so much, why be afraid to provide more detail?

Please do provide links as to where this information can be read by HCParadise members too. I have found in the past many times that even though the wording is the same, some can come to different conclusions as what is meant by what was written.
I am open minded and have mentioned there is always more that can be learned about hermies. But as opposed to so called hear say, I want to read it and make my own conclusion.

Suebee · Post by **Suebee** » 09 Jun 2010, 02:25

I feel if you have a problem with me that calling it out in a thread is out of hand. Ladybug to say who i worship? I have stated what was my opinion along with the words "my opinion"
What is that "sach" line?
I never said i didnt go to that research site< It would be a waist of my time to go there to pick out and show what parts are out dated.
As a moderator Ladybug you are really out of line. You are trying to pick a fight and discredit me.
Ive not said that anyone here is stupid.
What makes you feel that you should have access to any of my research. Ive mentioned sites that the research is easily obtainable to help others.
I would say that Im not the one stating that my ways asre the only ways. I can see however that the few who post here often tend to think that any ideas that they do not use have to be wrong.
Im shocked at the way this thread has been changed into a "oh my she doesnt do what we do, lets discredit her and make her leave" thread.
Im very shocked of what you have had to say as a mod. Ladybug. Do you know what that job is saposed to do? You should be smothing over things between people, pointing out people state what opinion they have and not pointing fingers.
You are a cyber bully. Im not afraide of you just in case you want to know that. I stand on ethics and that is something else you should research. Its unlike me to call out on anyone in a thread however you have taken a few bites first so I feel its ok.

Suebee · Post by **Suebee** » 09 Jun 2010, 06:37

Just wanted to add: Please never use Morton or any brand table salt due to the iodine.

CrabbyJo · Post by **CrabbyJo** » 09 Jun 2010, 07:27

I feel if you have a problem with me that calling it out in a thread is out of hand

I'm sorry, I do hate to jump in here, because I feel it's just fanning a flame to some degree, but I do have to point out that the above statement is quite hypocritical when you were the one that started it all by jumping on Emma when she stated her experience and feelings about HBH salt. Perhaps she could have worded it a little differently, but her post to you was not antagonistic.

You didn't provide any link stating why the HBH salt is good. You only provided a link to a site selling it. I myself would love to see some info on research, scientific or not, that indicates maybe it IS good, but Emma's experience and my own with adopting crabs from a store that used the same salt for their crabs (two small E's drained their ocean water bowl twice in a day and a night) convinces me otherwise. Please, be open to hear other's experience, it may change your mind.
If you have a link that has some detail about the HBH salt, I would love to see it.

Did you even look at the article I linked for you about the salt research?

Also, Iodine is not the danger in table salts. It is the processed nature and anti-caking agents that can be harmful to your crabs.

Slowbro · Post by **Slowbro** » 11 Jun 2010, 12:13

It's a dark, dark day. Another of my hermit crabs has died... I found Umbreon in the sand motionless. I was sick and tired of seeing my hermit crabs slowly dying away so I decided to do an autopsy on Umbreon... and I found a small shard of oyster shell that had pierced his abdomen... So I have decided to remove the oyster shells.