Surface Moulting or dead?

[snicsnacmama]

Hello everyone. I am a newbie. My son and I (he says we can share them) got 4 hermit crabs a week ago. We (that means me. lol) did alot of research ahead of time and set up a 10 gallon tank. When we brought them home and put them into the crabitat, 2 of the 4 started immediately to go after 1 of the other crabs and it looked as if they were trying to pull her from her shell. We gently placed them on opposite sides of the tank. The one who had been attacked promptly burrowed ( i missed the part about not letting your substrate be too deep at first) In the mean time I could tell the other two were shell shopping because all the shells were rearranged and covered in substrate when I would check on them in the morning. I bought more shells from a craft store although I wasnt sure they would work. Then yesterday morning I came in and found the spot where she had been buried churned up next to it was the shell of one of the shellshoppers and I could see a little crabby face and legs in the hole. Did a quick shell count and sure enough there was one shell to many on the surface so I gently lifted her out of the substrate with a spoon and sure enough...Naked! so I bathed her rinsed all the shells and put her in a dark box with a soft towel and sponge for humidity and after about 7 changes she settled on a shell. I put her back in as we do not have an iso tank yet. she was not very active last night although she did move around. I checked on the tank frequently over night. At one point I did see the other shell shopper start to approach her and I immediately put him in the shell shop basket I created, where he immediately started trying on and finally settled on a new shell.
Now my little friend who got her shell stolen is very still legs partially out of shell. I misted her lightly and stroked her shell gently but nothing. How do I know if she is dead from all that stress or possibly moulting on the surface? What should I do? should I do the soda bottle trick? I have severe CRA (Crab Related Anxiety). I just want to do the best I can for them. They didn't ask to be here.
A few words about our set up. 10 gallon tank. eco earth, fresh dechlorinated water, I was using hermit crab salt water until today actually when I found the info on this site about the marine salt water. the temp and humidity are within parameters temp hovering around 74-78. humidity around 80% sometimes I have to vent the lid bring it down. I give them fresh food. (chicken on the bone with no spices was a big hit last night!)
Please forgive the long winded post and thank you in advance for any suggestions you might give.

[emmac350]

I'd say find some way to keep her separate from the other crabs. Your crabs are all very stressed right now - they came from an environment where food and shells were in scarce supply, so they feel they need to fight for them - and keeping her separate until everyone calms down is your best bet. Do you perhaps have any picture frame glass that you could use to separate your tank into two sides? That would be best as your victim will have the most room to move around if/when she recovers. Also, stop handling her - she's really stressed right now, and your handling her will stress her out more. Instead of handling to check for life signs, just smell the tank. You won't miss the smell of a dead crab...trust me!

[snicsnacmama]

Thank You very much for your advice. I do have a piece of glass I can use and I will try that. I appreciate you taking the time to reply to my post.

[ladybug15057]

Wishing the best for your little one. But I would like to add too that sometimes a hermie can smell really bad, as in a dead rotted fish smell. Prior to making any decisions in case this odor would arise, please check very closely for any sign of life. Do not blink when you do because you may miss that very slight twitch of life, I know I did. Thank goodness I didn't blink. Even if the odor does happen, give the benefit of the doubt for a short time. Good luck!

Edited to add:
Possibly a typo, but in your info it says "Crabber since: 11 Nov 1973"?

[snicsnacmama]

Thanks so much for your kind responses and spending the time to post them. I have used the glass dividing the tank idea. She is exactly where she was when I looked last night in a little Hide that I created with some large shells, but when I checked this morning there was a crab poo in one of her water dishes and substrate in her food bowl. Keeping my fingers crossed. By the way I switched them to the Marine sea salt water yesterday after reading about the hermit crab salt on this site and the crabs on the other side of the tank drained the dish last night. I had to refill it for them before I went to bed. I'm so glad I found this site.
I was wondering if any of you experienced crabbers think I will ever be able to house them together again if she recovers? I am already looking for a larger aquarium. I will set that one up and keep the ten as an iso tank I think, but I'm wondering if there is a chance she will be able to rejoin the general population. In the meantime I am on the hunt for shells like the one that seems to be so popular. Thanks again for your help.

[ladybug15057]

Sounds like the little one maybe playing possum when mom's back is turned? It is not uncommon at all for a crabbing parent to think a hermie is not moving. They can come out at night while we are in bed and the house is all nice and quiet and return to the same exact area they favor by morning. If one uses sand as a substrate one can smooth the sand and watch for hermie tracks but with other substrates this does not work. But I would say the poo in the water dish and the substrate in the food bowl are giveaways.
Would you happen to know what species of hermies you have? It does seem that certain species prefer a certain style shell. For example PP's, straws, indo's, rugs seem to prefer the turbo style shells... the ones with the round opening to fit their round torso's. Some E's (not all) seem to lean towards the D/slit opening shells to fit their more flatter torso's. (however the E's here seem to prefer the lightweight turbos too)
As for her rejoining the community when she recovers, should not be a reason why she can't. Just prior to letting them altogether either bath them in the same water (if you bath your hermies) or if not dunk her in the fresh water pond before you change it so they all smell the same and to cut back on possible aggressive territorial behavior.

[snicsnacmama]

I think they are all PPs. However since I am trying not to freak them out, I have only handled them briefly when I introduce them into the tank and once I moved one of them into the shell basket when he looked like he was going after my stressed out gal's shell. Except for one who hangs out in a "tree" made of drift wood all day, they mostly have bolted into a burrow when I enter the room. Of course I did handle the shell thief victim to bathe her and present her with her new attire options, she is, I'm fairly certain, a PP but Im no expert.
For the first time since they arrived last night, The biggest one did not bolt for cover when I brought in dinner. And dinner was a big success. Oat bran, Honey, A shrimp complete with exo and organic strawberry with top. I actually watched the larger one go over and start "feeler feeler"ing the offerings. The bowl looked like a hurricane hit it when I checked this morning. So I have hermie joy! lol. On the down side My little friend does not appear to have moved, her stuff seems completely untouched. It's like,"Crabs of Our Lives" here. I do really hope she recovers. I have become very attached to her. I love an underdog or I guess "undercrab" would be more appropriate. Thanks so much for keeping in touch with me ladybug, I appreciate the support. My husband just smiles at me fondly like he is pretty sure I've gone off the deep end. lol.

[snicsnacmama]

Well I'm sorry to say that my little Friend who had her shell stolen is definitely dead. the tank definitely smelled "off" last night and this morning the smell as very bad coming from her and she easily fell from her shell. The rest seem to be doing very well but there were signs that they were trying to dig where the glass divider met the side of the tank like they were trying to get at her. Thanks so much emmac and ladybug for your words of wisdom and taking the time to answer my questions.

[Gizaroo]

Aww. So sorry to hear about your lil ones passing.

[CrabbyJo]

Snicsnacmama,
So sorry to hear your little one passed. It seems the ones we have the shortest time seem to touch our hearts the most when we lose them.
You did the best you could, and you gave her a fantastic home.
It sounds to me as if perhaps, since she passed so quickly after you got her, she may have been ill to begin with, and who knows, perhaps her tank mates sensed this and that is why they went after her shell, and not each other's. Just a theory, but it's where my mind goes.
She was lucky you gave her a good place to cross over to the rainbow bridge from.

Best wishes,
Crabbyjo