Banjo has a black spot

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Gizaroo
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Banjo has a black spot

Post by Gizaroo »

Hi all,

I just took Banjo out today (she is back to her normal friendly self) just to say hello and check out her new shell. It looks great on her! But while I was looking at her, i noticed a black spot on one of her legs. it looks like the leg got crunched in that spot, maybe while her exo was hardening?, and never healed or something. Just wanted to ask and get ya'lls input on her.

Here's some pics. She's very active, and eating and drinking great! The sand on one side of the tank (with the UTH) has been staying at 80 degrees, and has only been fluctuating about 2-3 degrees either way of that. The colder side has been staying around 74 degrees. Tank humidity is 78%.

the white specks on there are sand particles

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"My chief concern is to try to be an humble, earnest Christian."- Robert E. Lee

"If you are ashamed to stand by your colors, you had better seek another flag."-author unknown

Owned by 2 Belgian malinois, 1 mixed breed, 3 parrots, 3 bettas and 6 hermies: Blu, Skip, Theo, Scuttles, Spudnut, and 3 new E's. Rip Blaze,Luka, and Banjo.
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Re: Banjo has a black spot

Post by Wai »

I might be wrong, but it looks like shell rot to me. There isn't much you can do about it for now, but the fungus can be removed after Banjo's next moult. You can add a drop of salt water with a dropper to the wound everyday to hinder the fungus from growing.
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Re: Banjo has a black spot

Post by Gizaroo »

Ok, I'll start doing that. Thats what I was afraid of. I have some fish antibiotics at home...metafix or melafix think it's called. Would that be safe to use for her? I have plenty of salt water to use if not. I'm just curious.

She didn't have this the other day :(
Last edited by Gizaroo on 25 Aug 2010, 02:20, edited 1 time in total.
"My chief concern is to try to be an humble, earnest Christian."- Robert E. Lee

"If you are ashamed to stand by your colors, you had better seek another flag."-author unknown

Owned by 2 Belgian malinois, 1 mixed breed, 3 parrots, 3 bettas and 6 hermies: Blu, Skip, Theo, Scuttles, Spudnut, and 3 new E's. Rip Blaze,Luka, and Banjo.
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Re: Banjo has a black spot

Post by kgbenson »

Gizaroo2 wrote:Ok, I'll start doing that. Thats what I was afraid of. I have some fish antibiotics at home...metafix or melafix think it's called. Would that be safe to use for her? I have plenty of salt water. I'm just curious.
There are a number of different causes of exoskeletal discolorations. Some are fungal, bacterial, viral, nutritional, developmental etc. I don't think that applying a drop of salt water as mentioned above would be a problem, but I am not certain it will do much. It all depends on the lesion.

There are ways to try to identify the cause, even a culture swab of mild scrape of the lesion can prove enlightening if you know of a veterinarian who would be willing to work on your crab. Otherwise you are stuck with empirical treatment and taking a bit of a shot in the dark. Don't get me wrong there are times when this is all you have to go with, especially with species that have not received much medical attention in the past, but ideally you would want to know what the issue is, before you treat. It tends to lead to a higher rate of success.

What I can tell you though is that if you do decide on antibiotics I would A) start with something topical and B) avoid petshop pharmaceuticals as there is minimal to no QC, and storage is questionable. I think pet shops can have a role in society, I just don't think it should that of a pharmacy. :)

I wish there was a comprehensive review of the more common organisms of shell disease in captive LHC but at this point there is little info out there for Coenobita.

Keith
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Re: Banjo has a black spot

Post by Gizaroo »

kgbenson wrote:
Gizaroo2 wrote:Ok, I'll start doing that. Thats what I was afraid of. I have some fish antibiotics at home...metafix or melafix think it's called. Would that be safe to use for her? I have plenty of salt water. I'm just curious.
There are a number of different causes of exoskeletal discolorations. Some are fungal, bacterial, viral, nutritional, developmental etc. I don't think that applying a drop of salt water as mentioned above would be a problem, but I am not certain it will do much. It all depends on the lesion.

There are ways to try to identify the cause, even a culture swab of mild scrape of the lesion can prove enlightening if you know of a veterinarian who would be willing to work on your crab. Otherwise you are stuck with empirical treatment and taking a bit of a shot in the dark. Don't get me wrong there are times when this is all you have to go with, especially with species that have not received much medical attention in the past, but ideally you would want to know what the issue is, before you treat. It tends to lead to a higher rate of success.

What I can tell you though is that if you do decide on antibiotics I would A) start with something topical and B) avoid petshop pharmaceuticals as there is minimal to no QC, and storage is questionable. I think pet shops can have a role in society, I just don't think it should that of a pharmacy. :)

I wish there was a comprehensive review of the more common organisms of shell disease in captive LHC but at this point there is little info out there for Coenobita.

Keith
Thanks for the info! What type of topical meds (or anything really) would you recommend then? I have no exotic vets nearby...the closest one, my avian vet, is over an hour away, and I have no clue if they deal with crabs or not. Plus, their prices are outrageous, and I can't afford a bill from them anytime soon.

Also, Blu shares the same tank with Banjo. I really have no good way of iso'ing Banjo from Blu...easily anyways. Should I give a both a salt bath every couple of days to help prevent it from spreading to Blu? I've read it's quite contagious. I also don't want to stress either of them out too much.

Can't believe it came on so quickly...the pictures I took right after her molt didn't show a sign of the shell rot...and last night is when I saw it, just a few days after her molt.
"My chief concern is to try to be an humble, earnest Christian."- Robert E. Lee

"If you are ashamed to stand by your colors, you had better seek another flag."-author unknown

Owned by 2 Belgian malinois, 1 mixed breed, 3 parrots, 3 bettas and 6 hermies: Blu, Skip, Theo, Scuttles, Spudnut, and 3 new E's. Rip Blaze,Luka, and Banjo.
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Re: Banjo has a black spot

Post by Gizaroo »

I wonder if my mom could do a culture...she works at the lab at one of our hospitals...
"My chief concern is to try to be an humble, earnest Christian."- Robert E. Lee

"If you are ashamed to stand by your colors, you had better seek another flag."-author unknown

Owned by 2 Belgian malinois, 1 mixed breed, 3 parrots, 3 bettas and 6 hermies: Blu, Skip, Theo, Scuttles, Spudnut, and 3 new E's. Rip Blaze,Luka, and Banjo.
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Re: Banjo has a black spot

Post by Wai »

You could just leave him be and not do anything. Now that I think about it more, if the wound is deep and salt water is used, it may cause pain or discomfort if it is not isotonic with his body fluids.

Eye drops and injections are made isotonic (formulated in a particular way with specific concentrations of each substance) so that they cause minimum discomfort when administered.
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Re: Banjo has a black spot

Post by kgbenson »

Gizaroo2 wrote:
Thanks for the info! What type of topical meds (or anything really) would you recommend then?
It depends on the nature of the lesion. Using an anti bacterial would not be helpful if the problem is caused by something besides a bacterium. Since we do not have much info on ABs in hermit crabs (there is some info to be stolen from the shrimp industry though) I would not choose to treat unless I knew what I was applying was in fact likly to affect the root cause of the problem. IOW there is no point to taking the risk of application unless you expect e benefit in this case. That can be done in other areas where you know a substance is innocuous in a given species.
I have no exotic vets nearby...the closest one, my avian vet, is over an hour away, and I have no clue if they deal with crabs or not. Plus, their prices are outrageous, and I can't afford a bill from them anytime soon.
I don't know their fee structure, but I would argue that I have never seen a veterinary bill that wasn't an order of magnitude less than what you would pay for equivalent service at a human hospital. Off the point I know but I thought I would toss that out there. If the cash flow isn't there, then it really doesn't matter if you are getting a good deal or not!!
Also, Blu shares the same tank with Banjo. I really have no good way of iso'ing Banjo from Blu...easily anyways. Should I give a both a salt bath every couple of days to help prevent it from spreading to Blu? I've read it's quite contagious. I also don't want to stress either of them out too much.
I would seriously consider isolation, but not at the expense of good husbandry. IOW, the animals best chance, treated or not, is to be in optimized living conditions, if you cannot give him that in an isolation tank, I wouldn't mover him. You are potentially taking a chance with the other animal, but unless you know what the issue actually is, you cannot say it is contagious or not.

On that note, if the problem is environmental (say a buildup of nasty pathogens beyond what the animals can handle) the it may well look contagious, but simply be a situation of shared exposure.

Salt water baths? I wouldn't - there is no way to do that without potentially affecting their shell water and hemolymph concentrations and that in an of itself might be a huge problem. If you were to try salt I would do so with a spot treatment and not a whole bath.

Be aware though that some of the organisms may well be slat tolerant, and salt water may well do nothing. Salt water won't kill bacteria that are from the salt pool for instance. IN that case, fresh water would be better, but to be hones, most bacteria can take the occasional brief osmotic swing and still manage to survive. Crab tissues? Not as well. I think I would either gather more data or wait it out.

As a thought though, you might try applying a small (very small) amount of honey to the area - it works well in many wounds, though it is not a silver bullet (nothing ever is). Not too much though - you don't want him to spread it all over himself.
Can't believe it came on so quickly...the pictures I took right after her molt didn't show a sign of the shell rot...and last night is when I saw it, just a few days after her molt.
That does smack of either trauma or an infection, or more likely trauma with a secondary infection - but what organisms are involved in the infection - that is what you would need to know.

Keith
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Re: Banjo has a black spot

Post by Gizaroo »

Thanks to both of you! I did put a couple of drops of salt water on the wound yesterday and she didn't seem to be bothered by it as if in pain.

I'll have to try the honey idea! I think we have several jars of it in the pantry.

I saw her inspecting shells again today...I wonder if she is thinking about changing hers and molting again...I hope she does so she gets rid of that shell rot and so I can do a deep clean of the tank to try to make sure she won't get it again.

Come to think of it, I think I heard her fall the other night. I wonder if that's what caused the wound.

Aug 15th is when she molted. Here's some pics from several days after, prior to the ones I posted in my first post.

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"My chief concern is to try to be an humble, earnest Christian."- Robert E. Lee

"If you are ashamed to stand by your colors, you had better seek another flag."-author unknown

Owned by 2 Belgian malinois, 1 mixed breed, 3 parrots, 3 bettas and 6 hermies: Blu, Skip, Theo, Scuttles, Spudnut, and 3 new E's. Rip Blaze,Luka, and Banjo.
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Re: Banjo has a black spot

Post by Gizaroo »

So I've been using the salt water on Banjo's wound, and it seems to be improving. It's no longer as black as it was...is turning more grayish, and almost seems to be shrinking a little. It also looks like it is contained in the one spot and isn't spreading anywhere. I hope this continues! :D
"My chief concern is to try to be an humble, earnest Christian."- Robert E. Lee

"If you are ashamed to stand by your colors, you had better seek another flag."-author unknown

Owned by 2 Belgian malinois, 1 mixed breed, 3 parrots, 3 bettas and 6 hermies: Blu, Skip, Theo, Scuttles, Spudnut, and 3 new E's. Rip Blaze,Luka, and Banjo.
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