E-mergency - My E molted then climbed out of his shell

[jeskalyn]

My Ecuadorian, Caesar, seemed to spontaneously molt two days ago (it was a surface molt). I gently moved his newly molted body, along with his molted exo, to a well set-up iso tank, complete with humidifier and adequate heat. I draped two scarves down the side of the glass to give him darkness. I gave him food/water (both salt and regular water) and left him be. He was fine this morning when I checked on him; he was actually stretching his legs and wiggling, so I figured it was a good sign that he was on the road to recovery. This evening, about twelve hours later when I returned, he was OUT of his shell and appeared to be completely dead. I am so shocked. I have never seen this happen. I dripped a drop of water on him to see if his exo flinched, and it did. I know he is alive, but know that he is barely clinging to life. He is upside down. Does anyone know why this might have happened? I know I shouldn't interfere further, but is there anything at all that I can do?

My other Ecuadorian seems to be sluggish too, like she may molt soon. She is in a trance-like state. I placed her in a 1-gallon tank for iso (am running out of tanks here, crabs!). Little does she know her friend Caesar is barely hanging on! Help!!!

Edit as of 10:45 PM - My other Ecuadorian crab, Lola, has officially started to molt. She is in sort of a sitting upright position, most of her body out of her shell now, only the end of her tail remains inside. I hope she makes it alright! I have NOT had good experiences lately with molters!

[ladybug15057]

With some of the complications that seem to be arising, I have gone back through some of your posts and do not see where you have answered the questions from:

viewtopic.php?f=45&t=4

For us to try to help, we will need a little more info. (If you have made any changes lately, please note that too, as it may have something to do what you are experiencing now)
Example being if you were using ZooMed part 2 for salt water but changed to a regular ocean sea mix in the past week or two please note as such)

What is the volume of your main tank?


How many hermit crabs do you currently have? How big are they?


How long have you had the hermit crab(s) that you are concerned about?


What substrate or combination of substrates are you using? How deep is it?


What do you feed your hermit crabs?


Do you use distilled, bottled, tap or other types of water?


If you are using a dechlorinator, what brand is it? Does it state to remove all heavy metals, chlorine and chloramines?

What brand of sea salt are you using to supply your hermit crabs with salt water?


What heat source are you using and where is it positioned?


Have you calibrated your thermometer(s) and hygrometer so that you can interpret accurate readings?


What is the air temperature range and humidity inside the tank?


If you are using an under tank heater, what is the highest temperature that the substrate reaches?


Do you have any photos of your tank or hermit crab(s) of concern? If yes, please attach them to your post.

[jeskalyn]

What is the volume of your main tank?
Main tank is 20 gallon long

How many hermit crabs do you currently have? How big are they?
I have 7 hermit crabs, a bit many for the 20 gallon tank, but currently can't afford more gallons.
3 are about 1.5" in length, 2 are about 3" in length, two are large crabs... I'd say close to 4.5" long.

How long have you had the hermit crab(s) that you are concerned about?
1 year and 2 months.

What substrate or combination of substrates are you using? How deep is it?
I am using play sand, about 7" deep.

What do you feed your hermit crabs?
Fresh fruits, including blueberries, strawberries, mango, banana.
Occasionally organic peanut butter on wheat bread.
I make them little salads, including iceberg lettuce/spinach, carrots, mushrooms, red/green peppers
Krill
Shrimp/snails
Dried fruits such as coconut, papaya, mango, etc.
Cuttlebone
Crushed oyster shells
Dried seaweed

Do you use distilled, bottled, tap or other types of water?
Distilled water

If you are using a dechlorinator, what brand is it? Does it state to remove all heavy metals, chlorine and chloramines?
No dechlorinator

What brand of sea salt are you using to supply your hermit crabs with salt water?
Zoomed

What heat source are you using and where is it positioned?
I use three heaters; two are small and specifically for smaller hermit crab tanks (one on each side of the tank), and one larger heater intended for a reptile tank, on the bottom of the tank, in the center.

Have you calibrated your thermometer(s) and hygrometer so that you can interpret accurate readings?
I wasn't aware you could calibrate thermometers/hygrometers.

What is the air temperature range and humidity inside the tank?
Air temperature 72 degrees Fahrenheit, humidity between 72 and 74 degrees

If you are using an under tank heater, what is the highest temperature that the substrate reaches?
I'm unaware, but it doesn't get too warm, as the sand is fairly deep.

Do you have any photos of your tank or hermit crab(s) of concern? If yes, please attach them to your post.
Please visit this link for shots of the tank and of my two hermit crabs in question.
https://picasaweb.google.com/jess.lynn. ... directlink

[ladybug15057]

First, thank you for taking the time to answer the questions. This does give a better idea of your crabbing method, and crabitat.

How many hermit crabs do you currently have? How big are they?
I have 7 hermit crabs, a bit many for the 20 gallon tank, but currently can't afford more gallons.
3 are about 1.5" in length, 2 are about 3" in length, two are large crabs... I'd say close to 4.5" long.

I understand about not being able to afford the expense of a larger tank, bur have you looked at freecycle (all items are free) or Craigs list? (where items are really cheap)
Keeping so many hermies in a tank could cause for aggressive behavior. (which could also cause for shell less hermies.
Spats for their own territory.

What substrate or combination of substrates are you using? How deep is it?
I am using play sand, about 7" deep.

I have not been able to find a suitable play sand around this area. Have you tried running a magnet through it?

http://crabbywiki.com/tiki-index.php?pa ... s+!%3F!%3F

http://crabbywiki.com/tiki-index.php?pa ... +health%3F

http://crabbywiki.com/tiki-index.php?pa ... +Play+sand

What brand of sea salt are you using to supply your hermit crabs with salt water?
Zoomed

This sets a red flag up to me. E’s (as all Hermies) must have a proper ocean/sea mix to survive. E’s are quite dependant on Ocean water, more so but not as dependant as straws. Please see for proper ocean/sea mixes and how to mix smaller amounts:

http://crabstreetjournal.com/xoops/modu ... storyid=20

When the ZooMed Part 2 as well as the HBH salt water mixes were tested with a hydrometer after mixing per the packages instructions, the salinity level did not register on the hydrometer.

When one mixes the ocean water, the mix should be permitted to sit for at least 12-24 hours prior to offering it to the hermies shaken a few times during this period. This ensures that the ocean mix has time to completely dissolve.

Ocean water is extremely important also if one uses distilled water. By using the ocean water it replaces the good minerals and elements that have been removed from the distilled water.

Have you calibrated your thermometer(s) and hygrometer so that you can interpret accurate readings?
I wasn't aware you could calibrate thermometers/hygrometers.

In the Crab Care section there are directions as how to test/calibrate a humidity gauge.
http://www.hermitcrabparadise.com/crabc ... eather.php

There is also a test where it uses less salt and water:

http://crabstreetjournal.com/xoops/modu ... storyid=54

Because of how sensitive they are, they should be tested about monthly.

If you are using an under tank heater, what is the highest temperature that the substrate reaches?
I'm unaware, but it doesn't get too warm, as the sand is fairly deep.

It is important to monitor the substrate temp and the air temp. Even with a deep substrate one would be surprised how warm it can get whether they use a light or Uth.

http://crabstreetjournal.com/xoops/modu ... storyid=69

Little story: (short version)
During our first year of crabbing we knew some of the hermies looked different from the others.
No computer at home, and books being very basic. My daughters hermie Shell Shock went shell less. Made a phone call to find out he was an E and no ocean water offered for 9 months. Bought ocean water, he stayed in the pond, still shell less. (was shell less for 6 days) Next morning found him dead in the pond. Short version of another observation, when we put the ocean ponds in the main tanks there was a LOT of pincher pushing in the pond, so we had to add another to each tank. They were drained quite fasr, even by the PP’s.
I am sure if you do the tweaks above you may find your crabbing experiences improved.

[jeskalyn]

Quick question... Last night I tried to run a magnet through the sand. What color particles am I looking for? So far nothing stuck to the magnet. Is rust always orange, or should I be looking for black also?

[CrabbyJo]

Jeskalyn,
Glad to hear nothing stuck to the magnet. You are just looking to see if there are any metal particles in the sand (iron can be picked up by a magnet).
What brand of play sand might you be using, do you recall?
I think it's somewhat unusual for regular playsand (like Quickrete) to not have metal shavings in it, so am thinking you may have gotten a higher quality sand perhaps?

Ocean water is extremely important also if one uses distilled water. By using the ocean water it replaces the good minerals and elements that have been removed from the distilled water.

Marie is very much an expert in this area. Distilled water has had all the "live" nutrients removed from it - a person can die if they were to drink only distilled water and no other water. Providing a marine salt water mix replaces these missing nutrients, as Marie stated. This is why we all rail against those awful "hermit crab" salt waters - none of them have been shown to have the nutrients that a hermit crab truly needs, and so many people lose their hermit crabs during molting and it's likely that it is because of this use of an extremely inferior product.
Hermit crabs all need the salt to help them absorb enough water to expand their bodies under their old exo to help split it open so they can shed it more easily. Without the salt, one can only imagine the difficulties that could arise, and may be why some crabs end up with limbs still caught in their exo, or just can't seem to finish their molt.

I can attest to the need for the marine salt, and others on this site have similar stories - I bought two little Equadorians, their shells about the size of a nickel, from the pet store, and while they provided "salt water" it was the "hermit crab" salt water. I offered one of the medium sized (about 5 inches long) porcelain kidney shaped feeding dishes full of salt water (marine) for my two little additions. I filled it in the evening, and by morning, it was DRY. I mean not even a DROP left! I thought perhaps it was the over head light... so I moved the dish, refilled it... and when I arrived home that evening, it was nearly dry AGAIN. I refilled it, and it was half empty the next day. Refilled, and it stayed pretty full after that. If they climbed into the bowl it would have been at least halfway up their shells, that's how small they were. They both molted within a few weeks.

As for the substrate temp, get yourself a little inexpensive kitchen thermometer, probe style, that goes to low temps (not a meat thermometer). Drive it into the substrate over about the center of where your UTH is situated, all the way down to the glass. keep in mind that your crabs can and will dig all the way down there and could sit and toast themselves on the UTH if it is too warm.
When I checked mine I was shocked to find it was 100*F. It surely did not feel that warm to my hand. I now use a thermostat to control the temp.
There are other options, so don't lose hope! It sometimes takes a lot of tweaking, and I have lost my share of crabs to not knowing many things.

That reminds me, when you moved your newly molted crab, did you also make sure the temp and humidity were the SAME as the main tank? An abrupt change could be a bit of a shock to a newly molted crab. Just a thought and something to check.

btw, your tank looks beautiful. I really do like it, you've set it up very nicely.

[jeskalyn]

Thanks CrabbyJo, glad you like the tank set-up! Makes me feel like I'm doing SOMETHING right! I have a lot of tweaking to do.

I used to use vitasand (the white calcium enriched sand) but it was soo expensive to fill a 20-gallon tank. I switched to play sand after reading that it was okay (or at least that was the general consensus). I tried to find the specific brand on Home Depot's web site, but had no luck. The closest I came up with was Sakrete. I do remember that the sand is supposedly natural and has been washed, sterilized, etc. I may try a stronger magnet and go through the sand a couple more times to see if I come up with anything. I'm willing to switch back to vitasand if I have to to protect the crabs (and myself).

And by distilled water, please correct me if I've defined it wrong. I have a specific faucet with a filter on it, which we change regularly. I get the water from this faucet and sit it out for a few hours (distilling it?) before pouring it in the crab's dishes. I am definitely changing the sea salt that I use. I am very upset that this may have been the leading cause of my E's deaths. I feel very responsible. I found them at a reptile expo last year, and they were in bad conditions. Here I thought I was helping them... Once I tweak my tank conditions and buy new sea salt (which I plan to go out and do this weekend), and eventually if I am brave enough to buy E's again, do you know a place that has them?

As for the thermometer, I am assuming digital is the best option?

When I moved the newly molted crab, the conditions were very similar - temperature may have been off by a degree or two, but humidity was almost the exact same (as long as my hygrometers/thermometers are reading accurately).

I want to thank both you and Marie for answering my questions so generously and without judgment. You both have been so extremely helpful and I am so grateful. I look forward to continuously uploading pictures of my crabitat and hopefully my HEALTHY happy hermit crabs. Thank you both again!!!

[CrabbyJo]

Shoot me now! I had a good ol reply I was typing up then went to find something on google and left the page and somehow managed to LOSE it! ugh.

Ok, you don't have distilled water, you have filtered water. Make sure it's filtering out chlorine, heavy metals, and fluoride if that is present in your water supply. If not you need to get a treatment that removes heavy metals and chlorine and chloramines. Nothing you add to the water can remove fluoride.

Sand: It looks like the brand you found is probably much better than other play sands because, as their website claims, it is a natural sand, not manufactured (as most other play sands are - they are made from crushed rock). This is good.
http://www.sakrete.com/products/detail. ... -Play-Sand

Don't use the reptile sand though, the grains are very small and can compact easily and is not the best sand for tunneling in for hermit crabs. If you do go with Aragonite sand (Carib Sea brand) get sugar grain or select grain size. It is much cheaper than the reptile sand, and the grains are oolitic (rounded). You can usually find it at Reef shops, or pet stores that cater to salt water aquarium enthusiasts. Often a pet store will order some for you if they are ordering some anyway.

Digital or analog, whatever you are more comfortable with for a thermometer is fine. They both do the job.

And don't be hard on yourself. We have all had plenty of experience with making our own mistakes and losing crabs of our own. We are only glad to help others avoid the same mistakes we made.
And at least you learned some things so that you can take even better care of the little ones you have.

I better get back to work!

[ladybug15057]

Sakrete sand does have some metals within it, and some crabbers who tried using it have also found that on occasions when they (or the hermies) dampened the sand they found an almost rusty colored areas within the sand. CarbSea as CrabbyJo mentioned is one of the best sands, and not quite as expensive as the vita sand. (which is not recommended to use) Carib Sea can also be washed, baked and reused for a few years. (my daughter has the oldest reused CaribSea I believe)
The filer on your sink, you will still need to use a dechlor. They only tap waters that do not are the more expensive RO whole house filters or the RO water from a hospital.

http://crabbywiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Brita+filters

Little reading about bottle water too:
http://crabbywiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Bottled+Water

Lovely reading about our tap water too:
http://crabbywiki.com/tiki-index.php?pa ... +Tap+Water

I am sure with some tweaking you will find you will have happier hermies. We all were new crabbers at one time and had a bit of tweaking ourselves to do too so we know how it feels.

[theclaw]

Maybe your tank is too cold or check your humidity . And you should not touch the crab
when it was still molting. It also happened to one of my coenobita brevimanus and please check for a strong smell but it should not smell like dead fish. If it smells like dead fish then its dead. But ifits not that strong its alive.And the question is how many crabs are in the isolation tank?